«If you want to reduce mental load, you should hand over entire areas»

Mrs Sabatella, why did you become a mental load expert?

That's a very private story. I have children myself and they go to school. When they were still very small, I attended an event for parent education on reconciling family and career.

Mental load is about redistribution. This makes some men very angry.

An event especially for women?

Of course I did. I was then given the usual tips that you get as a new mum. For example: sleep when the baby sleeps.

A classic.

At that moment I thought: «Thank you, but that's not what's bothering me. I don't want to lie down in chaos. That's not what I need.» So I started researching and came across the term mental load.

Can you briefly explain what exactly Mental Load is?

It is the burden of everyday, invisible responsibility in the household and in the family. But the term actually comes from the work context. There, for example, it is the coordination and mediation in teams that can add up to a burden. Or maintaining relationships - for example, by keeping an eye on all team members' needs and ensuring that everyone is happy.

The comic «Mental Load» by French illustrator Emma, which is now world-famous, was published in 2017. In it, she describes a scene that many parents will recognise: Emma is a guest at a mother's house, who offers her a drink, feeds two children and cooks soup on the cooker at the same time. When it overflows, her husband comes running and is annoyed about the disaster. He asks: «Why didn't you say anything?»

The comic is now seven years old - but it still captures exactly the dynamic that I observe in many couples. When I read it for the first time, I was incredibly relieved to realise that it wasn't just me. I then asked the canton of Zurich what they offered on the subject of mental load. Nothing at all at the time. But they asked me if I could imagine doing something about it.

Take a close look at who likes to do which tasks and what is important to whom.

Today you are one of the leading Swiss experts on mental load, advising parents, giving seminars and interviews.

In Switzerland, the focus on this issue is much less political than in Germany, for example, where a lot centres on equal rights. Here, it's more about the individual level, i.e. how couples can find a way that feels fair to them. I am a psychologist and not a sociologist or politician. Nevertheless, I hope that my work also has an impact on a social level.

They also encounter headwinds time and again. Why does mental load actually make so many people so angry?

I only realised this a few weeks ago when a comment column boiled over. Before that, the most I ever encountered was a lack of understanding. But I've since realised that it's one of those women's issues that make some people, especially men, very angry. And that somehow makes sense.

What do you mean?

Because, of course, it is also about redistribution. If this very strenuous mental labour is made visible, then it must at least be valued, perhaps even financially compensated or redistributed. And not everyone wants to do that.

If both want something to change, you have to accept that the other person does things differently.

They still believe that it's worth it. For men too.

Yes, because we have to be aware of this: If one of us has too much mental load, it puts both of us in a difficult position in the partnership. Think of the classic supermarket situation: the woman plans the shopping, writes the list, reminds the man not to forget to do the shopping ...

... and is called twice more from Migros.

Exactly. Is this a situation in which the woman is relieved? Probably not. But this situation is not pleasant for the man either. He is the recipient of orders, is admonished, gets an annoyed snort on the phone instead of an answer and the question: «Have you never looked in our fridge?»

How do you get out of it?

If you want to reduce mental load, you should hand over entire areas - and then no longer worry about them. In this example: the partner takes over the food purchasing area from A to Z.

And that works?

To make it work, it is important to think carefully beforehand about which areas you can hand over. In this example: If what you eat each week is extremely important to you, then you shouldn't hand over the shopping. Another example: You hand over changing the bed linen - and then the other person doesn't do it for three months.

Difficult.

Yes, but there are certainly areas where you realise that it's not so important to me that the oatmeal I always buy is exactly the same. As long as it has flakes, everything is fine.

Mental load is not so much about fifty-fifty, but that both feel comfortable with the division.

I imagine that's challenging. Maybe I've spent years perfecting my tasks - and then I'm supposed to accept that someone does everything completely differently?

If you can't accept that, there is no relief from the mental load. This is something of a prerequisite that you have to bear in mind. Many of us have internalised certain beliefs - «If I don't do it, nobody will» or «Women can simply do it better». Getting rid of these is often quite complex, but it's worth it. Because behavioural changes take a lot of time. And if you both want something to change, then you really have to accept that the other person does things differently.

You mentioned the unwashed bed linen. Is that just something you have to put up with along the way?

Some people can cope with this, others can't. That's why I say: take a close look at who likes doing which tasks. Where there are standards that are very important to one person but not at all to the other. And for which tasks both assume a very similar standard - and it doesn't really matter which of them does it.

Nevertheless, many women also feel under pressure. They know: If the children go to school without a snack box, it falls back on them, even though it was agreed that the father would be responsible for this.

That's a very typical example, that's true. But I would encourage women to let go of this guilty conscience. Because it's totally absurd: why should that be the mother's job?

Many couples today have the intention of splitting all tasks fifty-fifty. However, only very few manage this in everyday life.

When we talk about mental load, in my view it's not so much about everything being split fifty-fifty - but that both feel comfortable with the division. Often 60:40 would be great, but 70:30 is usually more realistic. And if the husband works 100 per cent, she is at home with the children and both are happy and feel valued and not overloaded, that's fine too.

However, when I give presentations, for example, I often hear that women in such a position feel that they are not allowed to demand change because their husband works 100 per cent. So there is still a latent dissatisfaction - and this may also put a strain on the relationship.

Is mental load actually another word for a kind of burn-out symptom?

As with burnout, we can also speak here of a permanent overload, an overload in the head. It's actually about project management. In companies, these are well-paid positions that everyone realises are extremely demanding. And although many parents today both work, it is often the women who try to pull all the strings at home.

What do you think of the advice to swap at least once? I know this from Germany, for example, where fathers often take two months of parental leave. Even if the division of roles is more traditional again afterwards, this change of perspective has awakened an appreciation in many, sometimes also the realisation that going to the office is less stressful than being at home with small children.

That's certainly a good tip - but it's not so easy to implement in Switzerland because we have more difficult conditions regarding parental leave. At the same time, I ask myself how sustainable such a short period of time is. If you want to make the analogy with other behavioural changes, fitness for example - there's always a lot of insight that it would actually be better to exercise more, eat healthier and so on. But then you don't do it after all.

And what about the famous mental load list? Where you list even the smallest and most invisible tasks that arise and then look together as a couple to see who should take on what in the future?

I think that's helpful. Especially if you don't have the option of changing your perspective. There must be something that makes this invisible work visible. It could be a list, it could also be a mind map. But for me, it's like a first step towards redistribution.

There is often a lack of appreciation for the work that the other person does.

Suppose I like to buy children's clothes and remember every birthday. Can I then reserve these two tasks for myself?

Definitely. I always ask the couples: What do you really like doing? Sometimes surprising things come out of it, even for your partner. Maybe one of them says: Cleaning the whole flat when I'm alone and can turn the music up loud? Brilliant! Going to the weekly market with the children? I've wanted that for a long time. And then couples have to look for solutions that make both of them feel better - and don't chronically overburden one person.

You said earlier that fifty-fifty is not the goal ...

... not for everyone. For some, it makes perfect sense. But many couples are better off if they recognise that they have different skills and preferences - and organise the division accordingly.

Isn't the main point of Mental Load that both people use their own strength for the common cause, that both give their best?

I think that's also very important. And of course: communicate. Appreciate what the other person does. It's often what's missing. And it doesn't cost that much. Just send a message: thank you for making the beds.

A bouquet of flowers every now and then?

It sounds like a cliché, but I often hear: «We can't talk about it, people don't even see what I do.» A bouquet of flowers could mean a lot in a situation like this.

My advice is to be more pragmatic: I no longer make cakes. Not for daycare, not for school, not for birthdays.

Have you ever met a man who complained about mental load?

Yes, of course. There are always men at my talks where the wife works a lot and the husband has taken on more at home.

And then it looks exactly the same?

The children have to be picked up, the day-care centre clothes have to be brought, and tomorrow is also forest day. Help, the wellies are too small! In other words: yes. Then it's exactly the same.

Can the children also help to reduce mental load? By taking on household tasks, for example?

If you have children who are old enough to take on tasks, this has several advantages. The parents are relieved and the children are more involved in family life. They are an active part of it. This can certainly make many things easier - as long as the tasks are age-appropriate.

Is there another tip that has helped you personally?

My advice is simply to be more pragmatic. My realisation was also very banal, but: I don't make a single cake anymore. Not for daycare, not for school, not for birthdays. Firstly, I can't bake, secondly, I don't enjoy it and thirdly, children up to a certain age don't really notice the difference between bought and homemade cakes. If they eat it at all.

You are probably not alone in this.

I also always aspired to bake these Insta cakes. These amazing, beautiful cakes that I can't manage. And it helped me a lot to look at it pragmatically and think about it: Do I really have to do it this way? Can I do it differently? Can someone do it differently? Or can it be left out?

Were you worried that other mums would start whispering? Along the lines of: Mrs Sabatella is coming again with a bought cake?

That brings us to the role of the mother in Switzerland. That's a different topic, one that opens up a whole new set of boxes. But yes, other women do contribute to the mental load. Men too, of course. But perhaps a little less often.

At the beginning of the interview, you said that it is also worthwhile for men to share the mental load more fairly.

Well, yes. Nobody wants to have more work than they already have - and I understand that. Nevertheless, I believe that men also gain something. But you can only explain that in advance to a limited extent, you have to experience it. For example, it can be very empowering if you have more say and help shape things at home, if the children see that you are an equal partner and are equally responsible for all important decisions.