«We should support children in feeling shame and following it»

Mrs Immenschuh, when was the last time you felt ashamed?

I'm sure I feel ashamed every day. It's interesting that we often don't even notice the shame itself, but only the shame defence. That gives us a concrete characteristic of shame.

Let's start from the beginning: What exactly is shame?

An abysmal emotion that is neurophysiologically located in the same region of the brain as fear and pain. The extent to which we feel shame is shown by our strong physical reaction: we tremble, we turn red, we stop spitting and we want to sink into the ground. We want to isolate ourselves and just not be seen by others.

Shame makes us extremely sensitive and is one of the best teachers of emotional intelligence.

Shame is therefore a very strong social emotion. Incidentally, it is so strong and acute that the moment we say «I'm ashamed», we are actually no longer ashamed. But anyone who is trained to feel well in these acute moments will also recognise that shame protects us.

From what?

Very different. Feeling ashamed feels like fighting for survival, for emotional and social survival. It's about how I react and stand in front of others. Shame says: you're not right the way you are now. Shame has something total about it, it calls the whole person into question. If we allow and accept this, shame can protect us.

One time she says: Now you have to get out of the danger zone. Another time: That's not possible, fight back! Or: It's not worth fighting back at the moment. If you don't take a close look at your shame, it can rumble on for the rest of your life. Sometimes people tell me shame stories from their childhood that they have never told anyone.

Probably because nobody likes to be ashamed.

Of course not, it is unpleasant and we feel a lot of defence. But it's worth learning to feel it, because shame makes us extremely sensitive and is one of the best teachers of emotional intelligence.

Do you have an example for us?

Let's take a group of teenagers. One of them says something and realises that he has crossed a line, perhaps revealed something intimate. The others laugh and make stupid comments. At this moment, shame kicks in, helping the teenager to stop immediately and thus also to save face in front of the others.

Feeling ashamed feels like fighting for survival.

The fear of losing face is an important element in connection with shame. This is easy to observe in younger children. In moments of shame, they reflexively hold their hands in front of their face, along the lines of: I don't want you to see me. One of the main impulses in shame is the desire to disappear.

How do children learn this?

Most scientists assume that shame is not learnt, but is innate. There are different opinions as to when shameful behaviour can be observed in children. I think it's realistic from the age of around three, when children understand the concept of «this is me and this is you».

Can you be ashamed too much or too little?

This varies from person to person. The Indian-British author Salman Rushdie described shame as a liquid in his novel «Shame and Disgrace». According to this idea, each of us carries a kind of vessel within us that fills with shame.

This vessel is much larger and wider for some than for others and can hold more shame before the vessel overflows. The person can therefore bear more shame before the shame is reflected in their behaviour in one way or another.

What do you mean?

Let's take someone who has very rigid ideas of normality and for whom it is important to conform. This person has a small shame vessel that quickly overflows. A high level of shame is possible very quickly because there can be many situations in everyday life in which these ideas are not fulfilled.

You can't reach shamed children. Bringing a pupil to the blackboard as a punishment is completely nonsensical.

Conversely, if I am rather open in my values and thoughts, for example, if I don't care what other people think of me, whether they think my outfit today is beautiful or completely wrong, I have a very large, wide shame vessel into which a lot of shame fits.

Shame also accumulates over the course of a lifetime. If I experienced a lot of shame very early on as a child, which made me constantly feel «You're not right the way you are», at some point an extra-large barrel would overflow.

And this can already happen with children?

Absolutely. The psychotherapist and shame researcher Kornelius Roth talks about shame-bound and respect-bound families in connection with shame and addiction. In respect-bound families, you are allowed to make mistakes.

The mistakes are discussed and then it's good again. In contrast, in shame-bound families - including families with addiction issues - it is not good again if you have made a mistake. Shame and guilt remain.

If such a child is then constantly teased at school because it can't do something or simply doesn't fit in with social norms, or is perhaps a little fatter, then a lot of shame accumulates. For example, if such a child is humiliated in PE class one day, then travels home on the bus, where it is ridiculed again by other children, and if the mum then says something like «What do you look like?» at home, the child can snap. So much humiliation is too much.

Why such a strong reaction?

Because shame is anchored in the part of our brain that we also refer to as the reptilian brain. We react automatically and unconsciously when it arises; the options are to fight, flee or play dead. The greater the sense of shame, the more pronounced the forms of defence. We are familiar with the spectrum from minor embarrassment to abysmal shame, which can also lead to violence.

If a child reacts to feelings of shame with the «fight» option, it becomes aggressive, angry, for example, it lashes out at its sibling. Others unconsciously choose to flee, they run away from the shame, this unbearably unpleasant feeling.

This can be in the literal sense, by leaving the room or the flat, simply running away. And in a figurative sense, by withdrawing inwardly. This can go so far that these children dissociate, they simply block out the memory of what they have experienced as so bad.

You mentioned playing dead as a third option.

This refers to a freezing, an inner pause, «I'll just wait until this shameful situation is over». It is important for parents and teachers to realise that they will not be able to reach the children.

For example, it makes no sense at all to shame a pupil in front of the whole class because he has been chatting in class and to bring him to the blackboard as punishment. They cannot perform cognitively in this state of acute shame.

Parents should refrain from saying «You don't need to be ashamed of your body».

The defence mechanism with which someone reacts varies from person to person, just like the feeling of shame itself. That's why it's pointless to see your own sense of shame as a yardstick. Parents don't need to say: You don't need to be ashamed of your body. That is their judgement, but the child may have a different one. So if your daughter wants to wear a swimming costume instead of a bikini, that's just the way it is and we have to accept that.

Isn't it a good idea for parents to want to take away their child's shame at that moment?

That may be the intention. However, it is not about abolishing shame, but about becoming shame-sensitive and creating a shame-sensitive environment. Shame is the guardian of dignity, we absolutely need it because it indicates when boundaries have been violated. For parents, it is therefore not a question of sparing their children shame. Also because shame is one of the strongest developmental impulses.

In what way?

Let's look at an example: I might be a pretty good student, but I don't feel like studying today. Instead, I'd rather go swimming, even though I know it would be smarter to prepare for the work I have to do. I am ashamed of the poor grade that follows - this can be an impulse for me to make a different decision next time.

If a child reacts aggressively or withdraws, you should always ask yourself: Could this be because of shame?

Or for parents: My child is driving me crazy today and my hand slips. The shame about this is huge, it's the best incentive to ensure that something like this never happens again. So we should help children and young people to feel shame and act on it. And become more sensitive to defence reactions ourselves.

So being able to recognise when there is actually shame behind my child's behaviour?

Exactly. If a child reacts aggressively or withdraws, you should always ask yourself: Could this be because of shame? Then I should take the opportunity to talk to the child about it in a protected environment and under no circumstances in front of others, to carefully follow up. But, very important: not immediately.

Pent-up shame can escalate into violent behaviour.

At the moment of acute shame, the child cannot reflect. It is particularly important to look closely at conformist, withdrawn children. The fear of shame is sometimes the motivator for their behaviour.

According to the motto: What do I have to do so that the adults are happy with me, so that I don't have to be ashamed? Such children often do well at school, are shy and don't stand up for themselves. Another important factor is the issue of addiction.

Tell us.

Young people can use drugs because they want to belong. This does not necessarily lead to addiction, but it can, and all the more so if shame is involved. From a shame psychology perspective, you should also take a close look: Is my child joining in because it thinks it has no one else? If you want to be cured of an addiction, you have to be ashamed in order to build up good self-esteem. Shame and addiction are closely linked.

Another outlet is violence?

I have a friend who is a police officer. She recently had a case where someone stabbed a complete stranger in the ribs on the street. His reason was: «He looked at me so funny.» The look from an unknown person was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

Shaming as an educational tool is unfortunately a powerful instrument.

This really is an extreme example, but pent-up shame can escalate into violent behaviour. Shame that is so bad that you don't talk about it can rumble inside you for a very long time until this intolerability breaks out.

Many parents, teachers and carers see shame as a negative feeling. If a child misbehaves in their eyes, they are often told «Shame on you!» or «You should be ashamed of yourself».

Unfortunately, this is still often the case, because shaming is a really powerful educational tool. Let's imagine that a child has taken ten francs out of their parents' wallet. I confront them and they deny it. As a shame-sensitive parent, I know that this denial is a shame defence reaction.

So I don't insist, I don't say «Shame on you!», but «I'll get back to you». This gives the child the chance to talk to me calmly once the acute shame about what they have done - and which they know is not okay - has subsided a little. This works best if I respect the four basic human needs.

What are they?

Firstly, there is recognition, i.e. being seen and respected by others. Then there is protection, I want to be protected. The third is belonging. In order to fulfil this need, young people who present themselves on social media, for example, accept that they will receive less protection and recognition. They show more of and about themselves than is good. And they don't care whether they are respected as long as they have the feeling that they belong to the desired group.

We adults do this too and expose ourselves at a company party in a way that is completely atypical for us, because we know that the boss likes it and will show us respect. We receive recognition, feel like we belong, but sacrifice protection and integrity.

This is the fourth basic need and tells me whether I can stand up to myself and look myself in the mirror. Whenever a basic need is violated, shame can come into play. If I sit on the bus and watch someone being insulted without comment, I violate my integrity. The shame makes me think afterwards: I was a coward.

And how can I respect these four basic needs when I talk to my child about the stolen money?

I recognise that the situation is difficult and that they are still willing to talk to me. I protect them by not shaming them further. I tell and show them that I still love them and that they still belong to me. And I admit that it's okay to make mistakes.

How can I help my child to deal sensitively with their own shame?

For example, by helping them to recognise it. We've all experienced it: a child takes something from another but denies it. There is shame behind this, the child is well aware that they have messed up, but they can't admit it because they are ashamed, so they deny it.

We all have our own shame biography, and it is worth becoming aware of it.

Here, when I'm alone with the child, I can talk about exactly that: 'You don't actually want to have done that, do you? Even if parents talk openly about their own shame - «I'm sorry that I'm so angry sometimes, I'm ashamed when I do this or that» - children learn that shame exists and how to deal with it.

What if I don't feel my own shame?

You can learn that too. Shame is usually immediately replaced by a defensive reaction. It can be violent, surprise us, sometimes we simply realise: I feel strange at the moment. Then pausing and looking at what happened right now can help us get to the bottom of our own shame.

We all have our own shame biography, and it is worth becoming aware of this because it means we don't necessarily have to pass on our own shame to our children. We can then deal with it differently.