«Programming, as important as writing and reading»

Mr Hromkovic, you say that children should learn programming. Why is that?

Computer science promotes such important basic skills as independent and critical thinking. A fact that should not be reserved for specialists alone. For me, computer science is therefore as important as language and maths lessons. Children should also learn how to programme in order to really understand the digital world and, above all, to learn how to shape it. In this way, we educate children to become creative producers rather than consumers.

Consumption does not necessarily have to be bad.

That's right. It's bad if you only consume. Just as a muscle breaks down if it is not used, the brain also regresses if it is never made to sweat. The focus is not on memorisation, but on the process of discovery and creation. With computer science, a creative, constructive activity returns to school.

Many people do not necessarily associate creativity with computer science.

Let me give you an example from practice: a colleague conducted a school experiment with two groups. Group A had received regular IT lessons, group B had so-called ICT lessons*. This means that the second group learnt how to use certain software packages. Both were given the same task. The result was interesting: while group B started googling for ready-made apps and products with the desired features, group A developed its own IT project to solve the task independently.

If we apply this to the teaching of programming in schools, it means ...

that the children have to work out solutions themselves. If they want to programme, they can't just learn formulas by heart. They look for a strategy, describe it and enter their solution into the computer to test whether it works. If it doesn't work, they revise their approach, go back to the «original problem» and experiment with a new solution strategy.

Computer science promotes basic skills such as independent and critical thinking.

So computer science teaches ways of thinking?

Yes, because the pupils think about how they have to develop a procedure in order to achieve a certain goal, such as having a turtle draw certain shapes on the screen. This really encourages creative thinking. It also encourages an independent and critical mind that doesn't think in boxes. I can't think of anything better for a child's development than this approach.

They say that computer science as a school subject promotes the ability to acquire important language skills.

Even if it sounds surprising, this is actually the case. Many students are unable to express things clearly. In computer science, however, they are forced to do just that because the computer needs a precise order to do what they want.

For a non-computer scientist or for someone who wasn't good at maths, this sounds complicated. After all, mathematical thinking is the basis for computer science.

Of course, a talent for maths plays a role. But you don't have to be a computer science or maths genius to enjoy programming and acquire important basic skills. Let me give you an example from our «Primalogo» programming lessons for primary school pupils (see box). To be able to give a computer a job, you first have to master a language that it understands. We teach this programming language in such a way that the children can help develop it step by step. In other words, the children are taught how to teach the computer new words so that they can communicate with it more easily - which they really enjoy, by the way. The key word here is «co-create». Because as soon as they co-create, they learn more easily. And they learn to understand that languages are not finished products, but are subject to permanent development. Which brings us back to the topic of language skills.

Nevertheless, maths is a horror subject for many pupils ...

... or the pupils were victims of unfair maths lessons. But without question: maths is difficult. It takes a lot of repetition, time and training to understand it.

In your opinion, the school does not guarantee all of this today.

Unfortunately not for the most part. It conveys solution methods that scientists developed 100 years ago after long efforts and many optimisations. But it does not show how to get there. However, it is precisely this process that should be the subject of the lessons.

A child doesn't have to be a maths genius to enjoy programming.

What do you suggest?

One possibility would be to set up small classes specifically for maths lessons, in which each pupil could receive individual support. However, this is financially unrealistic. Several ETH projects in the field of mathematics and computer science - such as the Chair of Mathematics and Education, the ABZ Training and Advisory Centre and the MINT Centre (see box) - are therefore pursuing a different approach: we are writing new teaching materials. In these books, for example, we treat maths as a research tool that can be used to discover and help shape the world. We build up the topics slowly and comprehensibly so that pupils can learn to a large extent independently without a teacher and check for themselves whether they have understood everything correctly.

Do boys actually learn maths differently to girls?

Boys are more willing to take risks. They are prepared to go in one direction for a long time without checking whether it is the right one. They experiment a lot. Girls take a different methodical approach: For them, it is more important to keep checking whether they are on the right solution path. However, if maths lessons and teaching materials give girls the time and space to work out mathematical solutions in their own way, then both genders perform equally well.

They criticise the fact that too many «ready-made products» are taught in schools ...

... that do not explain to the students why a certain approach was chosen. The genesis, the origin of the knowledge taught, remains in the dark. It is still usually the case that maths, like languages, is taught as a «finished product». By this I mean that pupils usually do not learn much about the process that led to the structure of a language or a mathematical concept presenting itself in its current form. Yet it is precisely the knowledge of these developments that facilitates learning.

Can you give an example?

Let's take multiplication. When children learn multiplication today, they usually do so on the basis of memorisation. They would learn much faster if they understood the development and structure of our decimal system or if they learnt why this decimal system is better suited to dealing with numbers than other number systems such as the Roman numeral system. Different representations of numbers from different civilisations have competed with each other. The decimal system has won because the number representation is short and this enables basic arithmetic operations to be carried out efficiently.

That sounds very time-consuming and is probably beyond the scope of a busy timetable.

This consideration must not be the approach of an education system. Otherwise, the students of the future will only be able to use the products of the new technology, but will not be able to help shape the development of the technologies.

In future, we must be able to control and manage machines in order to be able to assign tasks to them.

What do you mean by that?

Technology is automating more and more activities that were previously carried out by people. This gives people the freedom to devote themselves to creative activities instead of reeling off repetitive routines.

Doesn't that also mean that if we are not careful, we will be overrun by technological developments?

Well, technology has made humanity so efficient that an ever smaller number of people have to work physically in order to fulfil the existential needs of society, such as producing food or building housing. This means that in future, we will not need people to carry out work, but rather independent people with research-based mindsets who will drive social development forward. In the near future, modern people will therefore be expected to be creative and use their well-trained brains.

And this is where programming lessons come into play.

In the future, we will need to be able to control and manage machines in order to be able to assign tasks to them. The ability to programme will become a skill comparable to that of writing and reading.

In the near future, modern people will be expected to be creative and use their well-trained brains.

You have been teaching children programming for more than twelve years. What feedback do you get?

The children are excited and proud when they master something that they found difficult or when they manage to make something that was challenging. This does not require a «cool» app on the smartphone. The feedback from our «Primalogo» programming lessons confirms this. Many pupils don't even want to go to the break because they can't tear themselves away from their programming task. Or they say: «I can't go home yet, I haven't finished it yet.»

Programming is now also included in Curriculum 21. You'll be pleased about that.

Only in part. Although the IT content is included in Curriculum 21, it is packaged together with media education and ICT. There is a risk that a misunderstood type of IT will be implemented in the curriculum. What the EDK calls the school subject «Media and IT» is a mix of media studies, user knowledge and IT.

What does this mean in practice?

Most lecturers at teacher training colleges are not trained computer scientists, but professors who have studied media studies. They therefore only focus on reflecting on and using modern communication technologies and designing their own media presentations. However, the use of Facebook or knowledge of Excel have about as much to do with real computer science lessons as driving a car has to do with mechanical engineering. So if media studies lecturers were to take over computer science lessons, as is currently the case in some cantons, there would be no real computer science lessons.

They criticise the Conference of Cantonal Directors of Education (EDK) for excluding experts from the design of a computer science subject in Curriculum 21.

When drafting Curriculum 21, experts from universities and ETH were not consulted to the necessary extent. There was not a single qualified mathematician on the maths committee, only civil servants and didacticians. The same was true of the computer scientists until I joined. If there are no experts on the committees, there can be no vision with deeper connections.

Teachers are also trained to teach programming as part of the «Primalogo» programme.

ETH is not in a position to train the number of primary school teachers needed to meet demand. I also think that it is not our job to do this. The aim of the ABZ projects is primarily to motivate universities of teacher education to provide high-level training in computer science. In the USA, the UK and France, computer science has been separated from media education and ICT has been introduced as a separate school subject. And in Eastern Europe, computer science has been a highly regarded subject for several decades. So when we talk about introducing the subject in Switzerland, it is not a question of taking on a pioneering role, but of no longer chasing after a train that is already travelling.

What is your experience with the teachers who come to your courses? Learning to programme as an adult is certainly more difficult.

I would like to contradict that. During our ABZ programming training courses, we have had many adults and even pensioners who have developed an enthusiasm for this activity despite previous frustrating experiences with programming. Getting into programming is not that difficult, even for adults, if you organise it properly. However, this requires skilled computer scientists who have been trained to teach this subject properly.

*ICT: Information and Communication Technology (ICT) includes computers, mobile phones and the Internet as well as the knowledge of how to use them.

This post was updated on 18 April 2018.