«Reducing media time is not the solution»
Mr Süss, when it comes to media use by children and young people, people often talk about screen time. You advocate looking at leisure behaviour as a whole instead. Why is that important?
Children and young people have needs: for communication, information, learning, social networking and entertainment. Then there are their specific interests - games, music and sport, for example. Which channel the child uses to fulfil their needs and interests is not the decisive question. Rather, we should ask ourselves: is our child socially integrated and are they experiencing that they can utilise and develop their talents?
Which is also possible on the screen ...
Exactly, so for one child two hours of screen time is already too much, but for the other it's just right because they are pursuing their skills and passions on the screen.
In principle, can we say that if media are used to produce something, this is positive because the children are then creative? But if they consume, is it more passive and therefore bad?
That's only partly true. When I design something myself, I develop my creative skills and create something that I can be proud of. But consuming something that someone else has come up with can also be creative. For example, when I read a novel or watch a film, engage with the content and relate it to my life. Or when I'm fully involved in a game. Fortunately, we humans also learn by modelling.
Do we find role models in the stories that the media tell us?
Either that, or we sense when the character of a character challenges us strongly. This is another way we can learn something about ourselves.
Are there also children's needs that cannot be met on a screen?
Media can challenge us emotionally and cognitively - but our existence also includes the physical. Movement, experiences in space and with all the senses - none of this is possible with media alone. At the same time, many activities today are accompanied by media - for example, listening to music while jogging.
Do we need times without any media at all?
Yes, it is important that we also endure when there is no external stimulation. Creativity also arises from boredom and peace and quiet. A conscious offline day or a hike without digital devices as a family can do us good. The idea is not to go on a detox programme so that we use less media in future. We're just taking a break.
How often should you take a media break?
That varies. If you have a hectic everyday life, it's good for you to use less media at the weekend. Those who are not so busy in everyday life need less. Retreating to recalibrate is a tradition in many cultures. This helps us to regain our strength for the challenges of everyday life.
When do media take up too much space?
If the child neglects important things, friends, schoolwork, exercise, sufficient sleep. But here too, reducing media time is not the solution. You have to look for the reason for the excessive media use.
What could the reasons be?
This is very diverse. For example, it could be that a child has too little experience of success at school or in general. And then they suddenly get a lot of recognition in the gaming community. Or children who are bullied at school look for spaces where they can forget these problems.
So it also works the other way round with needs: if they can't be satisfied in the offline world, children go online more.
This can actually be a coping strategy that helps the child. But we also have normative expectations of children. It doesn't simply matter if a child is bad at school but a star in the gaming scene. Many children dream of becoming an e-athlete or earning money as an influencer. But only a few become socially successful in this way.
As we conduct this interview, schools are closed due to the coronavirus. Many previously non-media-based activities such as meeting friends and learning are now taking place in front of a screen. What impact is this having on the children?
I think it is very noticeable for children that online contact is not the same as meeting in a room or outside. A lot of things are more stressful because it's harder to recognise non-verbal signals. Posture, a handshake, turning to and away from each other, physical proximity - all of this is important information that is suddenly lost. And that makes communication more stressful.
And what is strenuous is less fun?
It is indeed conceivable that children and young people are becoming somewhat fed up with constantly being on screens and communicating online. And the need for offline encounters is growing. At the moment, this is still a hypothesis, but there are currently a number of research initiatives investigating these questions.
On the other hand, parents are just learning how much exchange is possible online and are gaining a better understanding of why their children are on their mobile phones so much.
We have been forced to use many new tools in a very short space of time. The learning curve is steep with quick success stories. For example, those who had to buy hoover bags online for the first time. We learn that we can also meet basic needs online. Lengthy administrative processes are suddenly shortened. Many things seem to have been simplified.
Children who suddenly find media stressful and parents who are discovering its advantages - could the coronavirus crisis pacify many a domestic media dispute?
That is at least a plausible hypothesis. It could also be that children and adults create more positive media experiences together. It could be that parents get to know the game that their child loves to play.
Results of the latest MIKE study
Fewer children today make music at least once a week (down 14 per cent) or attend youth groups such as scouts (down 9 per cent) than two years ago. This is shown by a comparison of the latest MIKE study conducted by the ZHAW with that of 2017. For MIKE 2019, over 1,000 children aged 6 to 13 were asked about their media and leisure activities. According to the researchers, it could be that primary school children lack the time for extensive hobbies since the introduction of Curriculum 21. Playing games and doing sports are still popular. Around half of children have their own mobile phones. Gadgets such as fitness trackers, voice assistants or virtual reality goggles play no role in their everyday lives. Children's favourite app is YouTube - around two thirds regularly watch videos. Whatsapp, Snapchat and Tiktok are also popular. Three-fifths of girls and four-fifths of boys play games at least once a week. Fortnite, which is only available to children aged 12 and over, is the favourite. For the first time, children were asked which content frightens them. Exciting: The Harry Potter titles are the most popular films - and at the same time scare children the most.
What other opportunities do you see from a media education perspective?
Digital learning settings allow for more individualised learning than the classroom. You don't just have maths from two to three and French from three to four, but a weekly plan that allows the children to work at their own pace. It would be great if we could take what we learn here into everyday school life. When working with students, for example, I notice that I am contacted more often with individual questions. These would have been asked less frequently in the lecture if you were one of many.
Students can cope well with the demands of individualised learning. But aren't children also at risk of losing touch?
Yes, that is a legitimate concern - also on the part of the education directorates. It is assumed that the current situation is an advantage for strong pupils. However, it can be a disadvantage for those children who do not work so well on their own, have little support or are not technically well positioned. You have to keep a close eye on this. It means extra work for teachers to keep an eye on whether all children are making progress during distance learning.
And what about distractions at home?
For those who tend to procrastinate, i.e. put off upcoming tasks, or have difficulty focussing, learning at home is more difficult. There is a lack of social control from the group, which is also in learning mode. It becomes particularly difficult when there are toys and games in the room.
Many parents work with time slots in which media may be used and those in which it is taboo. How can they deal with this when school also takes place on a screen?
By paying attention to rhythmisation. After the child has finished learning on the screen, they should go outside and move around for a while before watching a Netflix series, for example. Overall, I think that screen time can be longer in this situation. It wouldn't be fair to say: «Now you've been in front of the computer for two hours for school, so you can't game anymore.» Especially as children need activities that relax them right now. School is not just about learning. The relaxing break-time chats with their mates are also a thing of the past.
Will media use automatically normalise when the lockdown measures are eased and social contact is slowly re-established?
That could depend on when that happens. The later children are allowed out again without special precautions to play with friends, the more they will have to catch up. However, screen time is generally higher in winter, simply because there are fewer popular alternatives outside.
The new results of the MIKE study on the leisure behaviour of children of primary school age in Switzerland were published at the end of April - the surveys took place before coronavirus. What did you notice in particular?
On the one hand, there is a lot of continuity when it comes to children's preferences: playing, doing sports, meeting friends - all of these are and will remain popular. On the other hand, making music and attending groups such as Scouts have declined and new platforms such as Tiktok are on the rise. However, these trends are usually short-lived. Children and young people move from one platform to the next - they are always where their friends are. They are digital nomads, so to speak.
Then let's talk about your favourite app Tiktok.
The favourite app thing is relative. Among children, only 6 per cent say that Tiktok is their favourite app. Around a third of young people have an account. YouTube, Whatsapp, Snapchat and Instagram are more popular. Even Facebook has more active young users than Tiktok.
So the fact that we perceive the app as a youth app is only because parents don't understand it?
And the fact that there are many young players on the platform. Most of them are slightly older than Tiktok users - so it's easy to look up to them as a young person.
Do you find Tiktok questionable?
I find it very versatile and it has great creative potential. However, Tiktok is already being used by advertisers. They are adopting youth culture codes to influence young people. Overall, it is used more intensively by girls. And it often conveys a one-sided body ideal. Of course, there is also the risk of becoming a victim of cyberbullying or cypergrooming if you present yourself on Tiktok. There is more of a risk of injury with boys - because they often perform daring stunts. In winter, for example, there was a trend for people to jump out of chairlifts and film themselves doing it.
However, Tiktok does have one advantage: the videos are so strongly staged that there is at least little risk of confusion with reality.
Yes, the sounds, lip-syncing and filters are often heavily exaggerated. Often humorous, slapstick-like. Comedy is popular with children and young people.
And then you scroll on and see a crying teenage mum or a depressed teenager. Both reap nasty comments. What has gone wrong here?
You could say that it was a wrongly chosen channel. In other environments - on a blog or Instagram - such self-disclosures are sometimes more appropriate. Young people seek this expression because they want solidarity and contact with others with similar problems. Or they want to send out a cry for help. The Zurich University of the Arts worked with us to analyse such forms of expression. How do young people articulate mental health problems or suicidal thoughts on social media? The idea behind this is that we can also tailor the offers of help to the creative formats of young people and thus better reach them.
What works and can even be helpful on one channel leads to bullying on the other. Today's media world places really high demands on young people.
And to adults. It is important that social workers and therapists are also well versed in these areas in order to address such issues. For example, one of my colleagues reaches for her mobile phone during a conversation with the young person and asks directly: «Would you like to show me what you've posted? Why like that? What were the reactions like?»
To prevent this from happening in the first place, it would certainly be good if parents were also on Tiktok.
The most important thing is that parents have a good dialogue with the children and young people. This includes parents being supportive and not immediately demanding that an app be deleted if something goes wrong. It is more important that they ask: «What's the point? What do you like about it?». Of course, it is helpful if parents are interested in the media. But they don't have to be registered everywhere - they can also be shown something.
Lecture series Cosmos Child
The Cosmos Child lecture cycle organised by the Elternsein Foundation and the «Akademie. Für das Kind» continues after a corona-related interruption - with a lecture by Daniel Süss on Tuesday, 1 September at 6 pm in the Kulturpark in Zurich.
About the person:
Media psychologist Prof Dr Daniel Süss is co-director of the two major Swiss studies on media and leisure among children and young people at the ZHAW: MIKE and JAMES. He is married and has two grown-up daughters.
Read more about the corona crisis:
- «Corona zwingt uns im Eiltempo in die digitale Fortbildung»
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Plötzlich ist die Familie nonstop zusammen. Wie gut alle Familienmitglieder durch die Krise kommen, hängt davon ab, wie die Familie gelernt hat, mit Verschiedenartigkeit umzugehen, sagt die familylab-Elterncoach- und Familienberaterin Caroline Märki. Mütter und Väter sollten besonders Jugendlichen in dieser Situation noch mehr Selbstverantwortung zugestehen. - Der digitale Musiklehrer
Auch die privaten Musikschulen mussten auf digitalen Unterricht umstellen. Wie funktioniert das Musizieren via Skype und was können Eltern tun, um ihre Kinder beim Lernen zu unterstützen?