Mr Gürber, can parents prevent criminal offences?

Mr Gürber, many of the young people who came to you as clients had a lot of things go wrong in their early childhood. The question on many parents' minds: How do I bring up my children so that they don't commit offences?

Of course, a mixture of many factors is important here. Quite simply, you should like your child. Even and especially when there are difficulties. As parents, you should be homogeneous so that your child cannot play you off against each other. And you must always find the right balance between looking after your child and handing over responsibility.

That sounds pretty difficult...

Yes, but I also want to allay parents' fears a little. There is a very, very wide range between overprotecting and neglecting, and you can make mistakes in parenting without serious consequences.

Is it more the neglected or the overprotected children who commit offences?

The overprotected children were clearly in the minority. But of course there were also those - especially in the heroin era, children often slipped into the drug scene who were forced into false teachings by their parents and were unable to fulfil the requirements.

«Parents must succeed in establishing a natural authority before the children are physically superior to them.»

Hansueli Gürber

And the others? What were the educational mistakes there?

90 per cent of the young people who came to me had committed minor offences, tested their limits and then learned something new. As a result, I often only saw them once. Something really went wrong with only about ten per cent of them - we had to order measures for six per cent of them. These often had blatant parenting mistakes at home. Some young people were used to being able to do whatever they wanted from an early age. All their demands were met if they shouted loud enough. These children learn the wrong patterns. And this can have serious consequences, because this strategy can get them into trouble at school and later in their apprenticeship. Another wrong educational tool is the regular use of physical violence by parents. If, as they get older, the balance of power suddenly tips and one day the youngsters are stronger than their parents, the latter have nothing left to do.

Do you have an example of what such parenting mistakes can lead to?

In the case of one of my former clients, the constant demands finally led to him turning up at his parents' workplace and threatening that he would make a huge fuss if they didn't give him money. Within a few months, his parents were over 40,000 francs in debt. Parents must succeed in establishing a natural authority before the children are physically superior to them.

Is it possible to educate without punishments or the threat of punishments?

I would say no. Young people try, provoke and test boundaries. But it depends on the type of punishment. Of course I'm against corporal punishment. But I am in favour of consistency. That means that if I threaten a punishment, I have to be prepared to carry it out. I once watched a mum in the playground who kept threatening her son that they would go home if he wasn't good now. He could see that she was engrossed in a conversation with another mum and didn't want to go home and that his actions would therefore have no consequences.

You say that punishments are important, but that they must not make the young person feel small. How does that work?

Above all, by justifying the punishments and making them easy for the child to understand. For example: the teenager is not allowed to go out again the next weekend because this time he was home at 2 a.m. instead of 11 p.m. as agreed. As parents, ask yourself before you impose such a punishment: Is this punishment sensible and understandable, or am I perhaps overstepping the mark because I'm being nasty?

As a juvenile prosecutor, you were always faced with the decision of whether a young person needed a supportive and educational measure or a punishment. How did you find out?

A lot of it was about non-verbal communication. How does the young person greet me? Does he look down or is he more provocative? I asked the young people questions to understand where they are in their lives at the moment. The way they talked gave me an indication of whether there were any major problems. Surprisingly, it was often the young people who were really in trouble who came straight out and told me.

Because they were so happy to finally have someone to talk to?

Perhaps. But I also believe that it helps many young people to finally get things moving when they become delinquent. I'm not saying that they make a conscious decision to do so. But the fact that this is the only time something happens certainly often plays a part.

«You will discover something endearing in every young person if you look closely.»

Hansueli Gürber

You have based your work on the guiding principles «I like you», «you are important to me» and «I have confidence in you». Are these the same phrases that applied to you when bringing up your own five children?

Turn the first sentence into «I love you» and then it's true. Children need our affection and our support, especially when they are in trouble, for example when they get bad grades.

But your clients have committed much worse offences. Isn't it difficult to like someone who has, for example, robbed rows of people?

Not really. If you look closely, you will discover something endearing in every young person. And also the misery that often lies behind their actions. In the vast majority of cases, the values that young people bring with them are the same as ours. Most of them know that they have done something bad. Sometimes you have to change your perspective a little.

What does that mean?

For example, I asked the young person who had robbed others how he would react if his brother was robbed. This often generated very strong reactions.

Since the Carlos case, many have observed a paradigm shift in the application of Swiss juvenile criminal law. Away from educational measures and towards punitive ones. Can you explain this to us?

I know that customised solutions - I don't like the word special settings - are on the decline. I think that's a great pity. I used to apply these individualised solutions to young people who had fallen out everywhere else. In the 20 to 30 cases where I used them, they were very effective, apart from one single case. These difficult young people now come to the Uitikon detention centre from the age of sixteen, for example. That doesn't pose a great risk for the juvenile lawyers. But is it also effective in keeping young people away from crime?

How has your relationship with the media changed as a result of the «Carlos» case?

The shitstorm back then was a mess, especially because I wasn't asked for a statement before the reporting, which would have been the least I could have done. Before that, however, I had a very good relationship with journalists during my 13 years as press spokesperson for the Zurich Youth Ombudsman's Office and I still do today. When the book was published, I even granted BLICK an interview again. Admittedly, I was a little nervous as to whether I would be treated fairly this time. But I wasn't disappointed.
Picture: zVg

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