Dagmar Rösler: «Some parents arrive at school like warships»

A new building near Zurich's Hardbrücke bridge. The umbrella organisation of Swiss teachers (LCH) resides on the top floor. Its new president, Dagmar Rösler, greets us in a modern meeting room with a firm handshake and a clear gaze. She looks well prepared and confident. No wonder, as the highest-ranking teacher in German-speaking Switzerland has already done a lot of media work in recent weeks and months.

Mrs Rösler, what are you currently working on?

Major topics on the LCH's agenda are the promotion of early education, i.e. support for children aged 1 to 4 years, and the expansion of daycare structures at schools. In addition, there is the merger of our umbrella organisation and the Syndicat des enseignants romands to form a national association, the digitalisation of schools and much more. We are also working on communicating to the public the challenging and valuable work that teachers do today.

Our columnist, learning expert Fabian Grolimund, said as part of the Fritz+Fränzi event series «Talk im Kulturpark» that three per cent of teachers are not suitable for the profession. What do you think of such a statement?

Of course there are teachers who have no feeling for their pupils. But what is a bad teacher? It's very difficult to generalise. What suits one pupil is not the right approach for another. As a teacher, you can never please everyone. I also think that many people have an outdated image of the teaching profession. A lot of the media only report on the negative aspects of the profession: the shortage of teachers, burnt-out teachers. The biggest school critics have probably not attended school since their own school days and base their arguments on an antiquated image: the teacher stands at the front of the classroom and all pupils do the same thing at the same time. Those days are long gone.

But surely there are cases in which a parent simply doesn't like a teacher?

Yes, this can actually happen and is of course not good. However, many parents often judge a teacher too selectively. Just because the person doesn't shine at the parents' evening doesn't mean that they give bad lessons. The teacher may just not enjoy speaking in front of so many - adult - people, but otherwise does a good job. Parents should also bear in mind that the time the child is confronted with this person is only part of their school career. In later professional life, the next generation will also have to deal with people who are not one hundred per cent right for them. That's a bit of a school of life. Teachers are simply human beings who, like everyone else, make mistakes. The question here is how to deal with them!

And what if there is a conflict between the child and the teacher?

If the child tells you about an injustice that has happened to them, parents should be careful at first. Children and young people always report from their own perspective. But what happened beforehand? What did the child do and who else was there? If the situation is not clarified in this conversation, parents should contact the teacher.

«The reality in primary school
primary school is the one that children
later on in the world
expects later on.»

How should this happen?

Parents should not go to the school and expect the teacher to be available immediately, but should call, make an appointment and then ask what has happened in an open-ended conversation. For me, it is crucial that parents treat their child's teacher with respect and realistically assess what they can and cannot expect from her.

Isn't that a matter of course?

Unfortunately not, I've seen mums and dads who have entered the school like warships.

When is the point reached at which the school management should be informed?

If the teacher is not willing to talk or the conflict cannot be resolved at this level. Then the school management should be consulted. But the first priority is always to talk to the teacher individually. The most disastrous thing you can do is to join forces with other parents and try to take action against the teacher. Imagine you received a critical letter signed by all the parents. What would that be like for you?

I would have the feeling that all the parents were against me.

And that is not expedient.

Teachers often complain that parents expect too much, for example that the educational work at school is taken over.

Educational work is also carried out at school, in the sense of: How do you behave in a large group? That's something you can't learn at home in a small family. But the basic education must take place with the parents: being respectful towards others, listening, waiting your turn, being tolerant. We build on this basic experience in the classroom. School is the instance that integrates all people, regardless of class, origin, size and so on, into a social structure. This is where children and young people have to learn how to deal with this diversity. That is our world.

But the trend is moving in a different direction. Public schools with alternative educational concepts are recording rising pupil numbers and the number of homeschoolers is also increasing.

Switzerland is still the country with the fewest public schools, although the trend is slightly in the opposite direction. This is true and gives rise to some concern. This is not necessarily due to our primary school, but to our society, in which everyone wants to get the best for themselves. Many people only have one child and they want the very best for them. That's understandable. Perhaps it's also a reaction to school integration. Along the lines of: I don't want to send my child to school with other children who have special needs. My child doesn't get enough support when he or she is with weaker children. But I emphasise once again: the reality of primary school is the one that awaits children later on in the world.

Many people seem to want to avoid this reality. Petitions for free choice of school are underway in eleven cantons. Couldn't this have a positive effect on competition between schools?

To a certain extent, this idea is understandable. But it only works in theory at best. Free choice of school puts rural areas at a disadvantage and jeopardises equal opportunities and social cohesion. Those who can afford it and have the time to drive their children to a different neighbourhood every morning would do so. And those who do not have this capacity would stay in the neighbourhood. Ghetto schools would be created. If that were to happen, I would have grave concerns.

Another topic that is very close to your heart is the expansion of day structures and day schools.

Switzerland absolutely must move forward in terms of daycare structures and childcare. As a mother of two daughters, I speak from my own experience: it is a huge effort in this country to reconcile family and work. Incidentally, a lack of daytime structures could also be a reason why many people send their children to public schools, as they often offer lunch and afternoon care.

How will advancing digitalisation change schools?

That is a question that nobody can really answer yet. What is sure to come is the «one-to-one» principle. Every pupil has a device that they work on. But that doesn't mean that children will come to school at 8 o'clock in the morning, open their laptops and only switch them off in the afternoon when they finish school. I believe that in a digitalised world, creative activities, social skills and exercise will become more important .

One class goes into the forest and uses an app to identify different leaves, another listens to the teacher's explanations, collects leaves, feels their shape and later makes things with them. Which is more sustainable?

One method does not exclude the other. Perhaps the teacher can name the individual leaves in a first visit to the forest and let the pupils collect and feel them. And use the app in a second visit. «Look, if you're not sure, you can find out the name of the leaf this way.» Digital devices open up new possibilities. But that doesn't mean that everything that was there before has to be shelved. Teaching media skills is a very important topic at school: When do I put my mobile phone away? What do I reveal about myself on social media and what not?

What school level are you talking about?

In lower school, children must first learn basic skills, such as writing by hand. Digital devices can then be used from the third grade onwards.

Are the schools equipped accordingly?

The situation varies greatly depending on the canton and municipality. In order for the devices to be used effectively in lessons, every pupil must be given a device for personal use. Well-equipped school buildings are needed where the Internet works reliably. Both technical and pedagogical support is needed on site. Not every municipality can afford this.

«Bring your own device» is an approach in which every pupil brings their own device.

I am against this approach for reasons of equal opportunities. Many families cannot afford the latest tablet, and some may not be able to afford one at all. This is also not possible in terms of technical support. One pupil brings a tablet from a certain brand, another a smartphone from a different brand. However, schools cannot impose standardisation.

Another important topic is likely to be the shortage of teachers, which her predecessor Beat W. Zemp said did not exist in an interview with Fritz+Fränzi. He was criticised for this.

There is definitely a shortage of teachers. But it is not the case that we can no longer find teachers. It's just that vacancies often cannot be filled with adequately trained teachers . That is a huge problem. We have been seeing this trend for a long time, but it is now coming to a head: When you realise that over 100,000 additional pupils will be entering school in the next few years and the baby boomers among the teachers will be retiring, this worries me. We are simply training too few teachers at the moment, and the same applies to special needs teachers.

But if this development has been on the horizon for some time, why can't it be stopped or at least mitigated?

Let's take a closer look at the situation using the example of special needs teachers: Inclusion in schools, i.e. the introduction of large classes in which all children are taught together, was implemented without ensuring that the necessary specialists were trained. In my previous role as President of the Solothurn Teachers' Association, I pointed out this situation several times. Politicians simply did not react. It was expected that many teachers would go into special education.

And that didn't happen?

No. Because this step is not attractive to many: a teacher hands over the classroom management and only works with individual pupils under the guidance of the class teacher, who may decide things very differently than they would themselves. In addition, this job requires a three-year, very demanding Master's degree programme. Not everyone can or wants to do this.

What exactly is the LCH doing?

We get involved and try to raise public awareness through our media work that something needs to be done. We are in dialogue with the Swiss Conference of Cantonal Ministers of Education to work out what we can do in terms of education policy to counteract the shortage of skilled workers.

What measures do you think politicians need to take?

Let's take French as an example: there is an emerging shortage of French teachers. This shortage also has its origins in the teacher training colleges and the fact that you have to or are allowed to choose a foreign language as part of your degree programme. Most students opt out of French and are therefore no longer allowed to teach the subject later on as they do not have the required level.

What do you suggest?

No subjects may be deselected in a generalist training programme.

There is probably simply not enough time to adequately train students in all school subjects.

This is the case in a three-year Bachelor's degree programme. The question therefore arises as to how the training of primary school teachers can be expanded so that subjects no longer have to be deselected. This would be the case in a Master's programme. You see, the LCH knows ways and means of counteracting the shortage of teachers, but we come up against a wide range of opposing political opinions that make it difficult to push through our own ideas. We can't just walk away.

«The lack of daytime structures could be one reason for the influx of public schools.»

With all your new tasks, you will continue to teach a fourth class in German and PE.

I teach a very small amount of lessons, but I wouldn't want to miss it. Working with children is very different to working with adults and seeing and feeling this gives me great pleasure and keeps me grounded.

What do you do particularly well as a teacher?

I can explain things well so that my pupils know what it's all about at the end. I'm certainly a teacher who sets boundaries, but always has a good rapport with the children . They enjoy coming to my lessons.

And what were you like as a schoolgirl?

I didn't have behavioural problems but I had a lot of energy, I was loud, cheeky and tested my teachers, especially at primary school level.

They have two daughters aged 13 and 15.

The two are very different, and as a mother I was able to judge some school situations from a different perspective than I did as a teacher. They are now both very independent. A few years ago, I wouldn't have taken on this presidency. My husband has reduced his workload by one day as a result of my appointment, and he works another day from his home office. So we manage well at home.

Dagmar Rösler about ...

• ... a ban on mobile phones in schools:
  «A general ban on mobile phones would not be effective. Smartphones can be used in lessons, especially in the course of digitalisation, but there must be clear rules on how and in what way.»

• ... the abolition of homework:
  «I am personally in favour of abolishing homework. For teachers, homework is an opportunity to consolidate and practise something. But this should be integrated into the school day in a different way.»

• ... the abolition of grades:
  «Grades can be dispensed with up to sixth grade.»

• ... a later start to school:
  «I'm not in favour of it. Young people don't realise that the day will be longer as a result. After all, the early lessons are not simply cancelled. And when they leave school for their apprenticeship, they are not told: «You don't have to come before 9 o'clock.» We often hear the accusation that school doesn't prepare students enough for working life. From this point of view, such a measure would not be effective.»

More about the school of the future:

• Mobile phone bans in schools are useless! Smartphone bans don't help pupils. Our columnist Thomas Feibel explains why.

• A good school: what is it? The Fritz+Fränzi learning experts have thought about how schools can succeed. Their assessment is encouraging.

• Daniel Burg, what's wrong with our school system? Headmaster Dani Burg has turned the system of two secondary schools upside down. He says: "Our school system is sick.