«Fathers can sometimes be constructively aggressive.»

Mr Garstick, you launched the first psychotherapeutic service for fathers in Switzerland over 20 years ago. What concerns did fathers most frequently come to you with?

The spectrum is very broad. In recent years, however, the focus has often been on how to divide childcare and parenting responsibilities equally between parents.

Is that so difficult?

I often see committed parents who value equality between men and women putting themselves under pressure with high ideals. They feel that they have to divide everything equally between themselves in the first years of their child's life. This doesn't work because of the different roles: the person who carried the child or breastfed it will always play a special role in the child's life. No matter how hard a man tries, he cannot change that.

Fathers and mothers have different roles. In general, it is good for children to experience their father as a different person from an early age.

So parents stress themselves out because they are pursuing a false ideal?

Exactly. And because they believe that «if we just try hard enough, it will work out.» Recently, a grandmother told me: «My son is so sad. He lovingly cares for the baby, but the child makes a clear distinction between him and the mother: when both are present, the child always wants only the mother.» It is precisely fathers like this who need to talk to others so that they learn that this behaviour is completely normal for babies and toddlers.

Do fathers behave differently towards their children than mothers do?

Some fathers, especially in the beginning, tend to focus heavily on how the mother interacts with the child and try to imitate her – for example, by changing nappies with particular sensitivity. Others, however, confidently do their own thing. In general, it is beneficial for children to experience their father as a different person from an early age and learn that there are other ways to braid hair besides their mother's."

So mothers are still considered responsible for caring and sensitive interaction, while fathers are more demanding and show their children the world?

Some reference books still describe this division of responsibilities, but I have been experiencing a different reality for quite some time. Today , there are even overly cautious fathers and , on the other hand , mothers who support their children in courageously exploring the world.

How has the idea of a good father changed in recent decades?

We have long since moved away from the old traditional division of roles, where dad was mainly responsible for providing for the family and earning money, while mum took care of the children. Today, fathers want to play an equal role in raising their children, and mothers want to return to work after giving birth. In reality, however, women are stressed because we don't have the same maternity protection in Switzerland as in Austria or Germany. Men, on the other hand, are under pressure because it is still difficult for them to take time off work to look after their children.

If we do not invest in early childhood, we will have few resilient adults in the future.

Expectations of fathers have changed dramatically – but social conditions have not. Fourteen days of paternity leave are just a drop in the ocean.

That's why fathers today are overworked! They want to be just as involved in housework, raising children and family life – and have wanted this for at least 20 years. At the same time, they also want to be committed to their careers. But they receive little relief. Today's modern father therefore has to do much more in purely quantitative terms than men did 30 or 40 years ago – a fact that is often forgotten. As a result, he has less time for himself and his relationship and is more prone to burnout. At this point, you might ask: «What about us women?»

All right. And what about us women?

This question is justified, but it should not lead to us no longer being allowed to say that there is such a thing as specific paternal stress. I think it is foolish to try to play maternal and paternal interests off against each other. Instead, we must achieve joint emancipation of the sexes. Because our society is too demanding.

The dangerous balancing act between the expectations of the working world and the challenges of family life is simply impossible to achieve and leads to constant overload for both mothers and fathers. Instead, they need more time during their child's early years.

It is also crucial for children to be able to develop stable relationships with their parents during this early stage of life. If we do not invest in early childhood, we will have fewer resilient adults in the future. I sincerely hope that the recently launched Family Time Initiative, which calls for 18 weeks of family time per parent, will bring about change in this direction.

Staying with fathers: in your experience, are they less overworked once their child starts school?

No, the challenges continue: helping with homework, picking up the child from sports, supporting them through their first heartbreak. Not to mention mundane things like shopping and tidying up the kitchen. What's more, even today, fathers are not automatically given time off or able to reschedule meetings without any problems when, for example, school visits are coming up.

That's why it's usually the mothers who end up attending these events. It would be important for fathers to be more present. If a child is having difficulty integrating into the class, for example, it would be helpful if the father picked the child up from school and asked specific questions («Who do you like to play with?») – without having to worry about putting his job at risk. Boys in particular need their fathers to be present.

Why?

Because boys generally have more disciplinary problems at school than girls. Due to hormonal influences, boys compete and fight with each other much more. They find it harder to accept discipline and develop group and social skills. In education, however, they often encounter rather irritated female teachers.

Because primary schools often have mainly female teachers?

That is precisely the problem. That is why fathers are needed here all the more.

Committed parents in particular put themselves under a lot of pressure with their high ideals.

What does the father do better than the teacher or the mother because of his gender?

It's not that he's better at arguing in disputes. But growing boys usually look for a male role model to guide them. If this role model insists on fair rules in games and fights and sets an example, the boy will want to please his role model.

What significance do fathers generally have for children?

Fathers play a central role in development due to what is known as triangulation. In psychology, this refers to the addition of a third person to a relationship between two people. As a human being, I am dependent on having another close attachment figure in addition to my intense relationship with my mother, i.e. I experience an extension in the form of an emotional triangle. As a child, I experience that my mother is in a loving relationship with another person that differs from my relationship with her. This triangulation experience is fundamental to the mature psychological development of a person. It helps the child to build up frustration tolerance and experience a change of perspective.

What role do fathers play for their sons?

It is important for boys and their gender orientation to have a male role model with whom they can identify. Fathers convey values to their sons and show them how the two sexes interact with each other. Ideally, sons learn from their fathers how to interact with their mothers in a loving and respectful manner. They see that although they don't always agree, they are able to argue without conflict. Parents also demonstrate that ambivalent feelings in a relationship can be tolerated without immediately leading to separation. Fathers are important role models for boys in this regard. If there is no father, this can also be compensated for by a grandfather, uncle or other male role model.

And what significance do fathers have for daughters?

Many studies show how strongly fathers influence young women's image of men and themselves. Girls need their fathers especially during puberty. Daughters need to see the sparkle in their father's eyes. They need to know that he admires them and supports them in what they do – that he is cool with his daughter dancing or wanting to become an engineer. Girls should see reflected in him: «You are worthy!» A father's affirmation and recognition is an important safeguard that prevents daughters from entering into romantic relationships with men too quickly and uncritically. It helps them to set better boundaries. Fathers who live apart from their mothers can also do this – if they continue to maintain close contact with their children.

What role does a father's own father play in this?

A very big one! Your own children remind you of the relationship you had with your father when you were a child. If I had a very good relationship, that's the best starting point. But if my father treated me without empathy, that can be a challenge when dealing with my own children. In the best case scenario, I try to do especially well and am perhaps overly sensitive in my interactions with my son or daughter. But I may want to do too well and end up being impatient with myself because I don't live up to my ideal. This is actually an issue that many fathers struggle with.

What do you mean?

Many want to do better than their own parents. In the context of needs-based parenting, many fathers do not realise that in some situations it is okay to be constructively aggressive. That sometimes a gentle «Hey, that's dangerous, please stop!» is inappropriate. Instead, an unambiguous statement is needed («Stop!», «No!»). Afterwards, I can still explain to my child why I reacted more strongly. This also applies to mothers: they too can take a clearer line when dealing with their offspring today.

A society can only develop if the younger generation rebels against the older generation and challenges it.

During puberty, young people often abruptly remove their parents from their pedestal. Fathers are particularly affected when the formerly close bond with their daughter abruptly ends.

When the relationship is secure and children feel loved, they dare to challenge us parents with controversial topics. Dad is a successful banker, but his daughter is critical of capitalism? This can lead to emotional turmoil. It is important for the father to be brave enough to accept his daughter's criticism and endure it. Because this is exactly the friction his daughter needs.

Are conflicts between daughters and fathers during puberty more intense than those between mothers and daughters?

No, you can't say that. But children are very sensitive to our weaknesses. If a daughter or son realises that a parent has difficulty with a certain issue, they will unconsciously challenge us again and again. They do this all the more when they know that their relationship with their parents is stable and they feel loved. Such conflicts instigated by our offspring are actually a compliment to us. If our daughter or son never did this, we would have to assume that they are too afraid to confront us.

The more conflict-ridden the relationship with your adolescent offspring, the stronger the relationship?

No, not that either. I just want to say that parents should see challenges like this as something positive. Because it shows that the foundation of the parent-child relationship is solid. The more loved and secure I feel as a child, the more courageously I will take an independent and controversial stance. What's more, a society can only develop if the younger generation rebels against and challenges the older generation.

I recently read a survey entitled: «Three things adolescents dislike about their fathers».

Now I'm curious: what are the three points?

Unclear wishy-washy behaviour. Ingratiating displays of friendship. And demanding performance.

I can totally agree with that.

What does that mean for the father?

When it comes to vague wishy-washy statements, parents tend to explain all sides of an issue to young people in detail. This is sensible in order to convey that there are always different perspectives. At the same time, however, I would encourage fathers to take a clearer stance – even at the risk of appearing one-sided. Because that is what leads to dialogue and friction – exactly what young people find exciting. That's why, as a father, I shouldn't always focus on balancing the pros and cons, but also take a clear stance from time to time.

What about all this fawning over friendship?

Parents are parents, children are children – this clear distinction must be maintained. Ultimately, young people need to break away from their parents. Of course, as a father, I can ask my son if he wants to go to the football stadium with me. However, it is important that I actually ask him, don't take it for granted, and give him the opportunity to say no.

How do you assess the third point that adolescents allegedly hate about their fathers: demanding high standards?

It is always problematic when children feel that they are only loved if they achieve certain things. On the other hand, I can of course expect my son or daughter who has chosen to learn a particular instrument to practise («We bought the piano especially for you. How can we help you get through this difficult phase?»). Important: Do not make the child's value dependent on a certain grade or achievement. Shall I tell you a story about this?

You're welcome!

The Austrian Siegfried Bernfeld is considered a pioneer of psychoanalytic pedagogy. His adopted son grew up in Vienna in the 1820s and was studying for his secondary school entrance exam at the time. Immediately after the exam, the boy found a wonderful aquarium in his room. «But Dad,» he exclaimed, «you don't even know if I passed yet!» «But I saw how hard you worked,» replied his father. «You're getting this gift because you tried so hard.» To me, that's true recognition! Free from any expectation of performance. Fathers today can still learn from this example.