Ms Brunner, when parents get divorced, children aged six and over must be heard. You conduct such hearings on behalf of the court. What do these children tell you?
It varies and depends on the child's relationship with their parents. A typical situation is this: the child has a good relationship with both parents, but the parents cannot agree on how often the child should stay with each of them. In such cases, children often do not want to have their say at all. Or they want the time to be divided quite fairly – down to the hour. This gives them the feeling that they are doing their bit to help their parents argue less .
And what if the relationship isn't good with both parents?
Sometimes professionals assume that children want to have the same relationship with both parents, even though this is not the case, perhaps because they are having problems with their mother or father. This leaves the children feeling that they are not being listened to or understood. In our society, children tend to have a stronger emotional bond with their mother because they still grow up closer to her. This is particularly the case when the father has little experience of spending time with them.
So if an equal division of roles was not practised before the separation, it cannot be demanded afterwards.
That's exactly how it is. Professionals and even parents often say: «It's a new situation, so we'll just have to adapt.» But that isn't always true for the children. Younger children in particular sometimes find it difficult to be apart from their closest caregiver for any length of time. Accusations quickly arise that the child is being manipulated. Even professionals sometimes share this view. This is very frustrating for children, because they feel their feelings are not understood and, on top of that, are forced into situations that are difficult for them.
What should you do if a child refuses to go to live with the other parent?
Firstly, parents should try to understand how the child is experiencing the situation. After that, they can look for ways of dealing with it that are tailored to the child. This requires both parents to be willing to find flexible solutions. If this is not possible, it often leads to deadlocked situations in which children become increasingly resistant. We also regularly come across children who are completely unsettled and stressed by such situations, or who develop psychosomatic symptoms.
A break-up often makes me feel insecure in my role as a mother or father. Left alone with the child, I have to redefine myself.
It is very difficult to cope with the fact that your own child doesn't want to come to see you.
Yes, that's right, but we have to see this process through. Our children do not belong to us – neither to the father nor to the mother.
They also advise families going through a separation. What are the needs of these children?
Children's aim is to develop, to discover the world and to learn. They want their development, their lives and the loving care they receive from their parents to continue to be guaranteed. How this is achieved varies from family to family.
What motivates the parents who come to see you?
We usually have families staying with us who are experiencing problems. There is a lot of conflict over childcare – who gets to spend more time with the child? As childcare is now closely linked to child maintenance in law, this conflict sometimes also centres on financial matters. Many conflicts also arise due to the dynamics within the couple. And then there are the emotional issues.
Which ones?
A separation often makes me feel insecure in my role as a mother or father. Left alone with the child, I have to redefine myself. Added to this is the fear that I will see my child less often. These feelings exacerbate conflicts between the parents. Furthermore, with the social changes of recent decades, perceptions of the family have changed significantly. Much remains unclear regarding the role expectations of fathers and mothers, which also fuels existing conflicts.
Parents should respect what their child says – even if it doesn't match what they would like.
Can you explain that?
I often see women who feel that their partners do not recognise or value the care work they do. They struggle to get some relief. Once the relationship has ended, many fathers suddenly want to take on more. This further devalues the care work they had previously undertaken, and women feel their efforts are being called into question.
Does the father worry that he won't see the children often enough otherwise?
Exactly. As long as a father lived in a so-called intact family with a traditional division of roles, he knew that when he came home from work in the evening, he would see his children. After a separation, this is no longer the case. So how can fathers maintain sufficient contact with their children? This question is of great concern to them.
What advice would you give to parents to ensure they do not burden their children with such conflicts?
You should get closer to your child, try to understand their perspective, listen to them more carefully and respect what they say – especially when it doesn't match what you yourself would like. This is a major emotional challenge. It's about accepting that you may be a long way from your ideal vision of a family. How can I come to terms with the sad and difficult aspects without going into «fight mode»? This also involves finding ways to calm yourself emotionally and not react with anger so quickly.
For example, during handover?
Yes. Children are constantly aware when their parents are in conflict. There are many small reactions or remarks that make it clear what state their parents’ relationship is in. With children in mind, it is therefore important that parents find ways to move beyond hurt and hatred.
Sometimes, rather than more communication, parents simply need a bit more space, because they are still far too entangled with one another.
That's not easy when you're deeply hurt. Do you have any specific tips on how to manage this?
Sometimes it's a long-term process that may even require psychotherapy. The aim is not to dwell on hurt and anger, but to try to find a way of dealing with them. Sometimes, rather than more communication, parents simply need more space, because they are still far too entangled with one another.
What do you mean by that?
When you're a couple, you symbolically weave a web of relationships together. This creates many deep emotional bonds between you – threads that must be severed when you go your separate ways. Only once all the threads have been untangled from the fabric of the relationship is the break-up truly complete on an emotional level, allowing negative feelings towards the other person to subside. This process is not easy; it requires a great deal of work on oneself.
But life goes on all around you: work, school, leisure activities. How do you manage to make time for them whilst you're going through a break-up?
It's a bit like trying to square the circle. It makes sense to set aside specific times for emotional processing – for example, when the children are asleep or out. Perhaps you could take half an hour in the evening to have a cry and let it all out into your pillow, so that during the day you can save your energy for the children and the work ahead. It's not about suppressing your anger or grief, but about channelling it.
And yet: sometimes you find yourself crying or shouting in front of the children. How do you deal with this?
In difficult situations with children, it's important to talk about your own emotions as well, and to explain them to the children. Of course, you shouldn't discuss every problem with them, but you could say, for example: «I'm just feeling really angry or sad about the whole situation again right now. But I'll get through it. You don't have to worry about me all the time.»
Is it better for children if their parents argue frequently?
Unpleasant arguments, violence and coercion are harmful to children's mental health. There are many studies on this, regardless of whether parents are separated or not. It is the parents’ responsibility to reduce the tension caused by conflict.
